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Chancel Repair Liability is Fun

Bob

The more I look into this, the more it appears to be a scam, and I wouldn't be surprised if one day it gave rise to an insurance miss-selling case.
Has there really only been one case of the church making an outrageous claim under this liability? Has anyone ever made a claim on their chancel repair liability insurance?

Amanda

Peter Luff MP has intervened on the behalf of the beleaguered parishioners of Broadway in Worcestershire and has done great and good work. It would seem that the PCCs will now be able to seek funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund for repairs to the Chancel, this is a major change which is welcome news. PCCs please note.

Kay

My brother has received a notice of CRL for his 3 acres of farm land in a quaint hamlet that has a few houses, a pub & a church. Another land owner has considerably more acres than him & has also received the CRL notice. The brother is an atheist, I am a practising Christian. Non of that matters, this is the law of the land!
There are several points that need to be clarified here - please ad an addendum to the original article with some actual facts in it. Particularly about the numbers of potentially affected areas - there are a limited number of parishes that this can affect, the Pcc is made up of volunteers who cannot be expected to take on a personal liability for disobeying the law; but they can resign as a statement of moral outrage!

The Risk seems to be ignored by many people here commenting, the Wallanders took their case as far as the House of Lords and became bankrupt because of total costs, how many people can afford to risk everything financially? I certainly can't, my brother can't. Listen to the solicitors, do the research, learn all that you can - basic questions such as
1- was there a parish church here in the days of the reformation?
2- Is it still here? If it doesn't exist then you can't be liable for costs.
If it does exist then it will be worth paying for the insurance or buying somewhere else.

philip

Why on earth does the c of e not finance its own properties either through its own revenue or organising local vooluntary appeals(English Heritage could help with listed buildings). Some churches could be replaced with buildings cheaper to maintain. The compulsory nature of the chancel law seems terrible for the church's public relations.

dawesy

So where did the Catholic Church get the land from? can't remember seeing any bill of sale.

Ryan

I don't understand the outrage directed at this law. If anybody has a house on old parish land, that land was stolen by Henry VIII. It is stolen property that you're living on. The land should all be given back to the Catholic Church. The Chancel Repair Liability is a bargain compared to actually doing the right thing, giving the property back to its rightful owners.

paul Elton

I am a member of a P.C.C. we have our quarterly meeting coming-up. CRL is on the agenda as members have been informed we MUST register liable property or become ourselves responsible for not doing what we have been instructed to do. One of two things will happen at the meeting; either all P.C.C. members will resign with immediate effect, or, a decision will be taken to spend our Common Fund assessment on solicitor's fees, doing the work which we do not understand how to do ourselves. How do either of these two actions help the C.of E? I can see this happening nationwide! Serve 'em right!

dawesy

I have just been made aware of this religious tax. So I wrote to the Archbishop( who said just accept it and pay up) my MP( who refered me on to the Chancelor and the Justice secretary) and the PCC(who have refered me on to the archdeacon) in the area I wish to move to.
Sad to report it was a complete waste of time effort and a stamp. They simply confirm all the negative comments as above. The get out is we all must insure ourselves against the ravages of a jelous god, wheather we believe or not.
The government and the Church have got us screwed.One way or another we are all going to pay for the disgusting habits of other people, so they can have a nice warm building to worship the invisible man up in the sky who watches our every move and will send people like me who think its all b*****s ,to imagenary place called hell where I will burn and suffer for my sins for all eternity.
Liked the artical though, it did raise a smile, a bit like the fella who claimed that if rape was inevitable, relax and enjoy it . Think I know what he was getting at!!!

dawesy

Mike Southwell

This CRL issue is now back in The Church Times, as well as the Daily Telegraph.As a former member of a PCC, I can only suggest that if any PCC is required to impose CRL on some unlucky home-owner, then a mass resignation should take place. That will effectively prevent this draconian law from being enforced. If enough PCCs resign, then, just maybe, the Church as a body will wake up to the reality of the injustice of this law. Perhaps we need another AMOS to deliver a message to the powers-that-be about justice and fairness

Cookie Consent for Dawdling Developers

Pie

Yay! xxx

Chancel Repair Liability is Fun

Annie Milanski: I'm afraid that's probably one for a qualified legal professional to comment on!

D S Hellier: An interesting point about the Charity Commission, I hadn't considered that aspect. To clarify for other readers, my understanding is that each church is run by a PCC, each PCC is a charity in the eyes of the law, and as such the members of the PCC are //personally// liabile should they fail to act in the financial best interests of the charity - in this case, to chase chancel repair liability. This makes the position of a PCC who is registering liabilities a bit more understandable.

However, in 2007 the legal advisory commission of the Church of England did apparently advise PCCs that they could cite [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harries_v_Church_Commissioners_for_England|Harries v Church Commissioners]] as a way of avoiding the registration, because by doing so they would alienate the community and harm the charity more in the long-run. They also note that Lord Scott in Cantlow v Wallbank [[http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd030626/aston-1.htm|said]], "Trustees are not always obliged to be Scrooge." That said, it feels like the church could have been more supportive of PCCs - perhaps seeking a special agreement with the Charity Commission concerning this unique issue, whereby it would indemnify any members of a PCC which waived its right to chase chancel repair liability.

In response to your second comment regarding the amount due to the church, I had actually forgotten all about compulsory tithes when I wrote that sentence! My point was more that the medieval church made a link between donations and the likelihood of going to hell - quite explicitly in some cases, such as paying for indulgences - and the population believed it because that was all they knew. In that context, chancel repair liability may have made a bit more sense. My comment was intended as hyperbole, to highlight the contrast with today where only 15% of the UK population regularly goes to church, 30% don't believe in the christian god at all, and I would imagine that the number of people who believe that you can literally buy your way into heaven could be counted on one hand.

D S Hellier

Reading your article again there is one glaring mistake in the fourth paragraph. The amount due to the church was not 9/10ths but 1/10th.

D S Hellier

I would like to make the point that that it is the secular Charity Commissioners who have forced the Church of England to take this position. The Commissioners have stated that if the Parochial Church Council does not take action then any subsequent repair costs to the chancel, where there is a liability and the PCC do not register that liability, will have to be borne by the members of the PCC. Each church has a PCC and the members are all members of that church. They are responsible for the governance upkeep and dat to day runnong of the chhurch.

Annie Milanski

What happens if an old property is not registered with the land registry ? (ie we have the deeds for it.)
If we want to register it, in a new name, is it best to wait until after 2013 ?

Why the London olympics will suck

William Black

The people running the UK seem to shun just about everything British, including the flag. Did you know you technically need planning permission to fly the flag? Have you ever heard of something so ridiculous? Perhaps the Olympic design team failed to secure permission from the pencil necks to fly the flag on the bodies of the athletes.

Pie

Love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!! xxx

Chancel Repair Liability is Fun

Dorothy Lopez

I agree with Rev Hawthorne -. it is monstrous that the church should enforce this rule and impoverish people.The Anglican parish church to which I belong is funded by the entirely voluntary giving of its members and friends

Mary

A requirement to pay for repairs to a religious building, when one does not belong to that denomination or that religion, is arguably in conflict with another law, that of religious discrimination. I don't think the relevant equality legislation was in force in 2003, but anyone facing these ungodly demands for payment now might try using it as a defence. If you're C of E, take care to undergo a conversion first, to any old religion - or any new religion - or none. And I would hope everyone facing such a demand for payment will protest as publicly as possible, preferably on the steps of St Paul's.

Alan

As I am buying a house for the first time in 20 years I have become aware of this issue and googled to this article. What a joke.

I believe that the ancient law giving all citizens the right to trial by combat has not been repealed either. So if the vicar wants me to repair his walls and foundations then he had best sharpen his sword.

How to lose a customer

Ouch, that's pretty nasty - you have my sympathy!